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  • do you think Sebastian even knows our!Ciel's name?

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    • Most likely.

      He might have seen it on the tombstone. OC's relatives might have mentioned the name but we did not get this flashback because... spoilers. 

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    • Do you think the Sebastian is even his real name? I think that's just his name as the butler, derived from the dead dog, much as Ciel is "Ciel" as the heir, not truly so. I doubt their true names are necessary for this, it is the marks they bare that are binding, but I do believe that Sebastian regardless known both their names, even if so be it fake 'Ciel' doesn't know his Demon Butler's name.

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    • FanonMyShipsArentCanon wrote: Do you think the Sebastian is even his real name? I think that's just his name as the butler, derived from the dead dog, much as Ciel is "Ciel" as the heir, not truly so. I doubt their true names are necessary for this, it is the marks they bare that are binding, but I do believe that Sebastian regardless known both their names, even if so be it fake 'Ciel' doesn't know his Demon Butler's name.

      Well, it was already shown that OC just named him Sebastian after the dog. When OC asked him about his name shortly after they formed the contract, he said "just whatever you want" and OC went to name him Sebastian.

      Also, Yana Toboso meant that it doesn't really matter what kind of demon he is. So we won't find that out. And this could also mean that his true name is irrelevant as well. (He could even have no name.)

      And, yes, I agree that their real names do not matter for their contract.

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    • i know they don't technically matter, i'm just curious since Sebastian not knowing his name would fit the fact that he doesn't really care and sees him only as food.

      pretty sure he doesn't have one - Sebastian's name is whichever is given to him by his current master.

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    • IMO, I think there has to be some form of a name that these demons have amongst themselves to use between contracts, or prior to their first, even if it's just a number.

      But back to "OC" Smile:

      I think Sebastian would know his real name, just for the sake of;

      1 He's a demon, and who knows what he does and doesn't know just given the fact that OC/Smile was a mortal in the contract.

      2 "OC"/Smile's soul is contracted to him, so whatever boundaries there may have been initially to a Demon's abilities, they may be null due to the servitude

      3 He was aware already that he wasn't the real Ciel. Although for the same of that plot twist, readers were unaware of this for a period of time, unless there's a scene I'm missing where "OC'/Smile told Sebastian of the truth, I would have to assume one of the formers is the source of his knowledge.


      But, in an alternative theory, perhaps "OC"/Smile was never truly named, as the second son, of the same birth. Given he called himself a back-up heir to Earl Ciel Phantomhive, and know-one knew about him. Think of it like the Hyūga twins in Naruto (Hiashi & Hizashi), but obviously in this case, "OC"/Smile is going without being given an official name.

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    • FanonMyShipsArentCanon wrote:
      But, in an alternative theory, perhaps "OC"/Smile was never truly named, as the second son, of the same birth. Given he called himself a back-up heir to Earl Ciel Phantomhive, and know-one knew about him. Think of it like the Hyūga twins in Naruto (Hiashi & Hizashi), but obviously in this case, "OC"/Smile is going without being given an official name.

      That would be both sad and hilarious (What did they write on his tombstone, then? "Here lies _ Phantomhive, unnamed but sorta liked."), but you can't just not name a child. You could get away with it at that time if you lived in places like East End (which was the case with Joker) but as nobles?

      Also, Vincent and Rachel do not seem like the sort of parents who just wouldn't one of their sons just because he isn't the firstborn. And they did not hide him in the basement or closet or attic or somewhere - they took him out whenever they could (OC was there at the party with Kelvin, Vincent took both twins to the nearby town, their relatives knew about him...) People did know about him.

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    • Plus we already know both twins have names as in the flashback chapter when Vincent takes the boys on a tour of the area they go into the church and the guy said Vincent's twins have unusual names.

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    • yes - as for Smile's name - everything had already been mentioned above.

      as for Sebastian knowing Smile wasn't Ciel - keep in mind, Ciel had already been identified as "Ciel" at the time. Smile called out to him. and Sebastian was obviously present during the ritual, so it doesn't surprise me.

      just had to point that out, i do agree with what you say.

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    • FanonMyShipsArentCanon
      FanonMyShipsArentCanon removed this reply because:
      Unnecessary, Seems to have stressed out the thread, possibly upset corresponder.
      12:27, December 11, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Scarlet already said it, Smile has his own name. we've been informed about their names being unusual for England. the name isn't being revealed to us probably out of 2 reasons:

      -it's important to emphasise how unimportant Smile was compared to his brother (he himself even defined himself through his brother, claiming he was "his spare")

      -teasing.

      and no, the family wasn't planning on Smile ever taking over, we can tell by the conversation Vincent had with Francis.

      and no, Lizzy does know Smile isn't Ciel because she had her doubts from the get-go and later on tested them.

      Smile was not a secret child, which somebody already stated above.

      and i'm just saying Sebastian not knowing his name would be fitting considering he is otherwise uninterested in the boy and is just doing his part for the meal. same way as humans don't think of their food as creatures with names.

      and honestly, if you go with telepathy, you're overpowering the character. Sebastian could then easily know everything about everyone and their plans. he's a demon, not a deity. he serves as muscle, not the brains.

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    • also, the tombstones were put up because the public believed they had all died. there needn't have even been any bodies. UT tells us there was absolutely nothing left of Vincent for example.

      Smile later on removed Ciel's stone because he was portraying as Ciel and so was therefore obviously alive.

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    • Hey new here and just wanted to ask a curious about the current arc. So does anyone else believe this arc isn't happening for real and is all in Ciel's head? Because before it started, UT made Smile drink something and due to how on earth is Ciel even alive. He was devoured by Sebastian and the fact that Smile knew it was Ciel who was the "culprit" before he even reunited with him is just rather strange.

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    • welcome,

      that's a very interesting theory! however, it's generally accepted it's real!Ciel UT had given the potion to due to the hair parting, but also because how would UT get so close to our!Ciel without Sebastian and the servants sensing him?

      the Ciel that has now appeared is mostly believed to be a Bizarre doll.

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    • by the way, you can start new discussions about the series here.

      this is by no means me fending you off, just useful info.

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    • Ay well I wasn't looking for a discussion on it and oh yeah I forgot about that bizarre doll thing; even I thought of that myself but I forgot. Well then I do change my mind and agree it's real.

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    • FanonMyShipsArentCanon wrote:
      Do you think the Sebastian is even his real name? I think that's just his name as the butler, derived from the dead dog, much as Ciel is "Ciel" as the heir, not truly so. I doubt their true names are necessary for this, it is the marks they bare that are binding, but I do believe that Sebastian regardless known both their names, even if so be it fake 'Ciel' doesn't know his Demon Butler's name.

      Well, believe that Ciel is Ciel's real name! His real last name is Phantomhive, also!


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    • well - real!Ciel's name is Ciel. but we've already been informed that the other one (our!Ciel) also has a unique, unusual name.

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    • I think that most likely he does it would still have to be in the "paper version" of the Faustian contract and it's a person who's gonna be his dinner so even if he wouldn't be really interested he'd propably know. As if you were presented with two people who you didn't know and you fed the same thing, as you didn't know who either of them were originally no matter which one you'd pick as your food you propably then wouldn't be as interested in their name as usual as the other ones as they're going to just end up being your dinner later anyway.

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    • ah, but there was no paper version?

      to my understanding, their terms and conditions had been "set into" their contract seals. had there been an actual, physical contract, our!Ciel would have most likely had to sign - and our!Ciel goes by "Ciel Phantomhive" now. i doubt he would use his actual name right after declaring to be someone else from then on.

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    • Yes, I actually more of meant "a paper version " as methaphorical in a way, it is kind of hard to explain though properly.

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