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  • As many know there are theories that the Ciel we know is not the 'real' Ciel but the twin of the 'real Ciel', it said that 'Ciel we know' has a older, healthier and happier mirror twin brother. It said that they both were taken from the fire and were both brought by the cult. In some manga panels they can show a happier and healthier boy that looks like Ciel, while we know Ciel was a shy and sickly child. In the manga it show a child looking like Ciel being stabbed in the stomach and therefore summoned Sebastian in his demon, when Sebastian walks up to 'Ciel we know' he was in cage. When Sebastian asked 'Ciel we know' name is waited a while and then looked over to the table were a body lies, then he says 'Ciel Phantomhive'. 


    Kuro1
    Kuro2
    You can find these panels on Vol 13 chapter 61 page 24 and 25
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    • honestly, i first heard about this theory from one of MasterLau's polls and have looked into it since then and i seriously feel like this is super plausible.

      Ciel has, after all, always been portrayed as a very polarised character (even his visual design indicates it). he definitely does seem like the kind of antihero protagonist to be hiding under a mask and this has definitely made his character a lot more interesting for me.

      what i keep thinking about though is - if he's just pretending to be Ciel - has anyone remaining even asked about the actual him, Ciel's brother? it seems to me like everyone was so happy about Ciel surviving, but there was never any mention of the other child - as if they were thrilled that it was Ciel who came back; as if they were glad it wasn't the other twin. could it be that the Ciel we know never truly got treated like part of the family? was he distanced from them due to illness and shyness to the point of barely being existent?

      imagine how that must feel for fake Ciel - he came back as Ciel knowing everyone would rejoyce, but nobody ever mentioned him ever again...i always thought he was sometimes pretty cruel and harsh towards Lizzy, but how could he truly love any of them, seeing that he's dead to them and everyone's fine with that? all the affection he's gotten after his return, wasn't actually directed at him personally...how sad is that? what a terrible life he must lead in addition to all he's already been through. he must not care for any of them whatsoever.

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    • I agree with you, back in the 16th-18th since Ciel we know was younger and sickly. Normally back then dose children would be left for dead in their rooms and everyone would focus their attention on the older child since that child (the real Ciel) would inherit the family's money, title and fame while the younger child (Ciel we know) would just be left in his room, alone. That's probably why he told Sebastian his name was Ciel Phantomhive, but, as seen in the manga Sebastian knows that Ciel we know isn't the Real Ciel. There was various moments when Ciel we know said his name but then in the back Sebastian is seen laughing and said one time You told me not to lie to you but you seem to be a lair and Ciel we know gave Sebastian a death glare.

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    • yes, i specifically recall seeing that bit. plus, Sebastian has never referred to his master as Ciel Phantomhive (of course he would not address him by his first name, but using his full name when referring to him would not lack professionalism). and i didn't realise just how poorly those children would be treated until you'd mentioned it...i've never really liked Ciel in particular, but his story is becoming almost deliciously pitiful...the complexity of his character is growing, and so is my interest. out of the 3 main theories about Ciel, i think i want this one to be true.

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    • Yes, Sebastian is told never to lie to Ciel and being his butler the professionalism hide Ciel's true identity as the younger brother. A lot of people agree with this theory and it is basically accepted as canon even though it's not confirmed to be true. I really hope it's true because it adds depth to the character and answer reasons why his personally isn't quite normal (meaning he's kinda insane). Well all we can do it wait but we have Book of Atlantic, Oooooo can't wait :D. 

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    • yeah, although i do suppose one could argue that Ciel is so damaged and complex in behaviour do to the amount of psychological damage he's sustained. it would be so cool - to find out the main character isn't even whom he portrays to be...seems like that eye of his isn't the only thing hidden away. i like the masked liar persona Ciel seems to be fitting in nicer and nicer as things progress.

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    • I have to agree with  you, Ciel hides behind a mask of false greatness, I's always exciting when something goes wrong and Ciel becomes unpredictable, he can stay clam or go crazy. There is ALOT of psychological damage that was done to Ciel and that impacted him in a way he went half insane, or fully insane, we don't fully know what's up with him. It's really cool to have a unpredictable main character, you never know what he's thinking...one that hide behind a mask, it makes the story suspenseful and keeps us on edge, waiting for the net chapter. Everything aside, only 9 more days till Kuroshitsuji: Book of Atlantic :D, can't wait, I'm so excited to Edward animated. 

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    • yes, he's almost like Hamlet - he's so good at hiding his nature, nobody can tell whether he's faking it.

      one thing i love about Kuroshitsuji is everybody's got a drop of complete insanity mixed with desperation in them (even innocent characters like Luca and Lizzy). they are all so beautiful.

      i can't wait for things to truly unfold, yet at the same time, i wouldn't want it to stop.

      oh gosh, 9 days?! i had no idea :D you just made my day with that!!

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    • Yeah, same, I can't wait for the mystery too reveal itself but on the other hand the series will end and I don't want kuroshitsuji too end, it's been around for 10 years now. That's really long and I don't know how much longer it'll go on for, it's popular but not as popular as Fairy Tale or One piece. I really hope it has about 300 chapters before it, I know it's a lot but I really don't want it to end, it's the only anime I'm really REALLY into. 

      If it really have to end I hope it'll get a spin off series, just the idea of Kuroshitsuji ending makes me wanna cry ;-;.

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    • omg same, this really is the only manga/anime i truly keep track of! hahah

      and i agree..

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    • Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

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    • Ravenzwvk wrote:
      Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

      i see no reason why that wouldn't be possible. i doubt it, though. what would be the mangaka's motivation to name him Vincent? not only would it bear no actual message (at least not an explicit one), it would ultimately take away from the uniqueness and individuality of both characters,

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    • Ravenzwvk wrote:
      Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

      It's more likely the first born would have had the name though? So he could be Vincent Phantomhive II. 

      My crack theory is that his real name is Earl. Literally he is 'Earl' Phantomhive! XD

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    • p̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶t̶w̶i̶s̶t̶:̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶A̶d̶r̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶C̶r̶e̶v̶a̶n̶

      lol, no, but i do think it's interesting how we know neither Smile's nor UT's name, while both are two major characters. for some unknown reason i keep thinking they'll eventually end up with the same one (if UT really were biologically related, i guess you could say Smile was named after a direct ancestor/relative).

      and Scarlet that's genius!! cracked me up!!

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    • Yes. I have been reading so many manga and in the Emreld witch ark (only in manga form) Ciel has a memory showing two Ciels one that we know is ciel and the mirror image ciel that I think is the older ciel and that is are ciel is feeling greiff and can not let go that he left his brother dead.

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    • LUIRULES1111 wrote: I agree with you, back in the 16th-18th since Ciel we know was younger and sickly. Normally back then dose children would be left for dead in their rooms and everyone would focus their attention on the older child since that child (the real Ciel) would inherit the family's money, title and fame while the younger child (Ciel we know) would just be left in his room, alone. That's probably why he told Sebastian his name was Ciel Phantomhive, but, as seen in the manga Sebastian knows that Ciel we know isn't the Real Ciel. There was various moments when Ciel we know said his name but then in the back Sebastian is seen laughing and said one time You told me not to lie to you but you seem to be a lair and Ciel we know gave Sebastian a death glare.

      Yes with the last thing you said. "You told me not to lie to you but you seem to be a lair". That makes sense since that Sebastian would know if that was the real Ciel what he is not.

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    • Ravenzwvk wrote: Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

      Ya that does not make sense it would probably be something related to Ciel.

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    • Bassygamer101 wrote:

      Ravenzwvk wrote: Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

      Ya that does not make sense it would probably be something related to Ciel.

      What if his name is something like moon but in French? Ciel and Lune, I feel like moon and sky go well together. Lune is "our ciel"

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    • im just pissed they're not saying his name 

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    • I saw somewhere that Astre/Aster is a popular theory name, there was evidence to back this up that links to the latest story arc but personally I'm not fond of it but then again it does suit the twins overall and the whole blue cult arc in general. (Ciel means sky and Astre means star, Blue Cult follow the orders of the 'Blue Star') This was one of the names Yana herself was thinking about when naming Ciel Phantomhive. (She posted a little doodle plus names of what the name could be, of course she ended up with Ciel and Phantomhive but with the reveal of the twin one has to wonder if she'll use another name from this list) It also links in to what Bravat said about Sebastian and how he is the 'black hole' eating away at him.

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    • ScarletLycrois wrote:
      I saw somewhere that Astre/Aster is a popular theory name, there was evidence to back this up that links to the latest story arc but personally I'm not fond of it but then again it does suit the twins overall and the whole blue cult arc in general. (Ciel means sky and Astre means star, Blue Cult follow the orders of the 'Blue Star') This was one of the names Yana herself was thinking about when naming Ciel Phantomhive. (She posted a little doodle plus names of what the name could be, of course she ended up with Ciel and Phantomhive but with the reveal of the twin one has to wonder if she'll use another name from this list) It also links in to what Bravat said about Sebastian and how he is the 'black hole' eating away at him.

      That is smart i never thought of Ciels real name it could be anything I am just looking at the manga to see if there is anything about his name.



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    • I think his name is Leic.

      Its the sdrawkcab of Ciel adding to

      1. the whole mirror-twin aesthetic,

      2. the whole Leic is the evil twin thing,

      and the elephant in the room,

      3.that he has no name of his own, that he is everything that Ciel isn't .

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    • If both of them are name Ciel...They must have crazy parents

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    • SumikoYuka wrote:
      If both of them are name Ciel...They must have crazy parents

      LMFAO, IK XD, for a while I lost all hope and thought they didn't even bother to name him or that yana would never reveal his name, I KNOW nana will reveal his name on his bday! Be it this year, next year or in 10 years I know she's dramatic like that XD!

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    • SumikoYuka wrote: If both of them are name Ciel...They must have crazy parents

      They are not BOTH Ciel. The psycho one that came back is the REAL Ciel (supposedly), while the one we THOUGHT was named Ciel has a different name. Obviously the trauma of what happened to him during the kidnapping, made him FORGET who he REALLY is, and the fact that hes the YOUNGEST in a pair of of TWINS, and that Ciel was his brothers name. *lol*

      Maybe during the turture and pain of whatever was done to him, made him forget his REAL past, especially with the thought that the brother he loved more than anything else in the world, besides his parents, was dead. That the HEIR of the family was dead. Maybe he just wanted to forget, and by the time Sebastien came and rescued him, because of the extreme trauma from the pain and suffering he suffered through, he HAD completely forgotten about 'Ciel' and who HE truly was and TRULY believe that he was his presumed dead brother. As far as his new memories were concerned he was an ONLY child, and was the ONLY heir to his family name, and that HE had ALWAYS been Ciel and not whatever his REAL name is.

      I think when he came back with Sebastien, I wonder how long did it take Madame Red, Lizzie, and everybody else who knew the Phantomhives, to realize that the 'wrong twin' came back? It should be obvious just by how sick he was with the SAME symptoms, compared to the healthier 'Ciel'. Though I guess when they realized that he TRULY believed he was 'Ciel' and seemed to have no memory of being whatever his name really is, they all just went along with it, since they had no other options. Dang no wonder Lizzie always seemed so miserable half the time while plastering a happy smile on her face. She had to pretend that the 'Ciel' who came back with Sebastien was the one she was supposed to be engaged to, instead of the one she DID fall in love with, and WAS engaged to.

      You see the look on his face when 'Ciel' came back. He even said so himself the more he thought about it that hes STARTING to 'remember'.

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    • I think the Ciel we know is the one who was soft, innocent, and with coughing one... while his elder twin was the one who was strong, sociable, and the one who was going to be the earl of phantomhive.. but after the incident.. the ciel we know was kidnapped and the twin was disappeared ( something like that).. after summoning the demon (Sebastian) the ciel we know made contract.. and of course after the elder twin he has to be the earl of phantomhive.. and so he became Queens watchdog... and  i remember that the ciel we know wanted to run a toy store.. so he also made the phantoms toy company... 

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    • i think  R-ciel was killed and then brought to life again by undertaker.

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    • Seriously... i was thinking the same thing.. like we all know twin ciel was killed as sacrifice... then how..? How ìs he alive..? Undertaker must be involved...

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    • thats also how he got the scars i think because he brought ciel back to life he comited tabo and had the thorns of death intangle him

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    • I was getting suspicious about Chapter 108 when Undertaker poured a vial of liquid in Ciel's mouth... and said " Because it's still too early for you to wake up " maybe there is a relevance from the event that Ciel's in?

      Or is it just me getting suspicious of it?

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    • Yeah maybe you are right.. but that was ciel's dream.. 

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    • @Diasama I think the cuts on Undertaker relate to the way he comitted sucicde, I think he cut himself like that when he was human and it just carried over when he became a reaper.


      The vial must have been the missing ingredient Undertaker needed to make the perfect bizarre doll, Ciel is the perfect doll. (Maybe the vial is a soul? That's what UT said was missing?)

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    • ScarletLycrois wrote:

      The vial must have been the missing ingredient Undertaker needed to make the perfect bizarre doll, Ciel is the perfect doll. (Maybe the vial is a soul? That's what UT said was missing?)

      that would be so cool if he actually managed to reap Ciel's soul before the fire during the night of the incident.

      but then what did Sebastian initially consume? did UT trick him, swapping Ciel's soul with someone else's? or did he make a deal with him and promise to hand in both souls once he's done with whatever agenda he seems to have?

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    • Yabucca wrote:
      ScarletLycrois wrote:
      The vial must have been the missing ingredient Undertaker needed to make the perfect bizarre doll, Ciel is the perfect doll. (Maybe the vial is a soul? That's what UT said was missing?)
      that would be so cool if he actually managed to reap Ciel's soul before the fire during the night of the incident.

      but then what did Sebastian initially consume? did UT trick him, swapping Ciel's soul with someone else's? or did he make a deal with him and promise to hand in both souls once he's done with whatever agenda he seems to have?

      Undertaker didn't have the death list so he wouldn't have known that the twins were due to die? But if UT had Ciel's soul this whole time, why only resurrect him now? Why not have perfected his bizzare dolls from the start with Ciels soul right from the begining?

      Oh man you made a good point, it can't be Ciels soul because Sebastian has already eaten it. Ahhhh then why is Ciel somehow the perfect doll!?!? 

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    • maybe UT followed them.

      i mean, from the looks of it he's an evil nobleman - he may have been invited to join for all we know lol. i'm sure he has many connections and would've at least known about the ritual summonings.

      maybe because the BDs weren't yet perfected physically? fixing Ciel's tattered body up would've required plenty of time as well i assume.

      we don't really know for sure though, he says "the price to cross the river had already been paid". very cryptic and could technically mean anything. he may have been referring to the prior human sacrifices and/or the ritual itself.

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    • Ravenzwvk wrote: Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

      Madam Red did say that the baby she was holding was named after "that man". We all know she loved Vincent, and she was crying when she held the baby. Who else could it be?

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    • but Vincent said his relatives were giving him the side-eye for having named the boys so unusually? we've been informed so far that both twins have uncommon names for England at the time. i feel like "Vincent" doesn't fit the bill.

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    • When did he say that? Although, it would work if he is the younger son. After all, normally the elder son would be named after the father.

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    • during their meeting with the past0r, i believe.

      "Vincent" still doesn't sound uncommon per se, and it would make no sense for the family to frown at the name itself as his predecessor was given the same name.

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    • It wouldn't be the name, but the fact that the younger son got the father's name while the heir got a different name. It's just uncommon.

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    • i understand what you're getting at, but that proposal is not in accordance with the nature of the pastor's comment is what i am saying.

      Capture2

      CH132

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    • Ah. I didn't understand that it said "for the region of England". I just thought it said it was uncommon in general. Well, I can't wait to see what his name truly is then.

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    • i did mention it, but possibly wasn't clear enough about it.

      i think it's interesting how we know neither UT's nor Smile's name. wouldn't surprise me if they ended up sharing one. people are, after all, suspecting familial relations between them.

      i just doubt it's Cedric, as that's not uncommon and isn't UT way too old to be their grandpa?

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    • Ineedtissuesandlessemotions wrote:

      Bassygamer101 wrote:

      Ravenzwvk wrote: Is it posible for our Ciel's real name to be Vincent? Its acctually the only other name that i can kinda see our Ciel being called.

      Ya that does not make sense it would probably be something related to Ciel.

      What if his name is something like moon but in French? Ciel and Lune, I feel like moon and sky go well together. Lune is "our ciel"

      I think the idea that "our ciel" has a name meaning moon is very likely since in chapter 11 Sebastian said that he "made a vow to the moon" which could refer to his contract with "ciel."

      Kuroshitsuji chap11 16
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